 |
| What has been the narrative historically when church combined with state? |
If, as Jesus said, we are to “render ... unto Cæsar the things which are Cæsar's; and unto God the things that are God's,”4 then what is the guide to discern which things belong to Cæsar?
Perhaps discerning jurisdiction is not that complicated in theory.5 We have: 1) moral duties to God, and 2) civic duties to our fellow humans to help maintain a civil society. Our moral duties are listed in the Ten Commandments.6 The first four belong to God alone and are entirely outside the purview of the state; whereas the last six (one positive, 5 negative) duties to:
honor (respect) parents,7speak to the relationship of: 1) individual to individual; and 2) individual to society. Historically, three of these duties have had enduring, secular parallels in legal or civil (Cæsar) systems in the nations and empires of both modernity and antiquity, even under pagan regimes.
not murder,
not commit adultery,8
not steal,
not bear false witness,
not covet,9
In a true separation of church and state, our civil duties to: not murder, not steal, not bear false witness would not be legislated as divine, moral directives, but as civic necessities to maintain social order and security. Of course, exemptions from “duty” have often been claimed by the power elites for themselves and their “friends,” but some measure of social and civic order necessitates limits to personal actions. Much can be achieved through informal social rules and networks, but justice often requires recognized authority to compel civic remedy for injuries to others or damage to their property. So how do we discern jurisdiction? Is the jurisdiction line between what is sin and what is crime? Prof. W. T. Harris observes (as quoted by A. T. Jones):
----------------------------------/
1. First three separation posts:
https://dejavu-timestwo.blogspot.com/2023/06/a-troubling-trend.html
https://dejavu-timestwo.blogspot.com/2023/07/back-to-future-again.html
https://dejavu-timestwo.blogspot.com/2023/08/2-understanding-separation-church-state.html
2. Church is here defined as a group of believers (whether organized formally or informally) who manifest “a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith” (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion) which, in this writer's opinion and in its broadest sense, includes political, economic, social, cultural, religious, spiritual, and pscience ideologies or dogmas, including: socialism, communism, fascism, Gnosticism, cultism, WEFism, WOism, transgenderism, etc..
(NOTE: the congruity of the cult of Ishtar with some of today's ideologies:
“Often identified as being neither male nor female, the role of the priests and priestesses of Inanna [aka, Ishtar] was to promote the fertility of the land. If they did not have sexual intercourse, it was thought that the land would no longer produce. They served at her temple in Uruk, the principal center of worship, and at numerous other shrines and temples to the goddess throughout Mesopotamia. As the goddess of fertility, Inanna was sometimes depicted as both male and female, and was said to have the ability to transform men into women and women into men. People who did not conform to Mesopotamian gender norms were often made into priests of Inanna. Such gender ambiguity also made Inanna an accessible deity, as both men and women could identify with her.” DK. The Mythology Book (Big Ideas) (p. 338). DK Publishing. Kindle Edition; bold emphasis added.)
See also this definition from Elder Bruce R. McConke: CHURCH OF THE DEVIL: ... The titles church of the devil and great and abominable church are used to identify all churches or organizations of whatever name or nature— whether political, philosophical, educational, economic, social, fraternal, civic, or religious—which are designed to take men on a course that leads away from God and his laws and thus from salvation in the kingdom of God. (Bruce R. McConkie. Mormon Doctrine, 2nd Edition, Bookcraft, 1966. pp. 137-38)
3. (not to mention almost every other church-state partnership in history world-wide)
4. New Testament | Matthew 22:21
Render therefore unto Cæsar the things which are Cæsar's; and unto God the things that are God's
5. In practice, however, jurisdiction gets complicated very quickly because, as history proves, the natural man (who obsessively pursues power, gain, glory, and domination) is an enemy to himself, his family, his neighbors, his community, and his God (if he admits to one). See https://dejavu-timestwo.blogspot.com/2010/05/natural-man.html
6. Old Testament | Exodus 20:3-17
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me[1].
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments[2].
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain[3].
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it[4].
12 ¶ Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee[5].
13 Thou shalt not kill[6].
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery[7].
15 Thou shalt not steal[8].
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour[9].
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's[10]. https://religions.wiki/index.php/Ten_Commandments
7. The secular equivalent may be obedience to the (Cæsar) system when it is acting within its legitimate jurisdiction
8. Jesus expanded adultery to include a state of mind which is solely within God's jurisdiction, but perhaps civic remedy could arise within state jurisdiction also if it entailed a breach of contract between two persons.
9. As covetousness is a state of mind, I believe it, too, is outside the reach of state power with accountability only to God.
10. As quoted by Jones, Alonzo. The Rights of the People: or Civil Government and Religion (p. 25). Adventist Pioneer Library. Kindle Edition.
11. Jones, Alonzo. The Rights of the People: or Civil Government and Religion (p. 21). Adventist Pioneer Library. Kindle Edition.
12. Ibid., (p. 23).
13. Book of Mormon | Ether 8:24-25
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.
Additional relevant jurisictional quotes:
• But it may be asked, Does not the civil power enforce the observance of the commandments of God, which say, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, and, Thou shalt not bear false witness? Does not the civil power punish the violation of these commandments of God? Answer— The civil power does not enforce these, nor does it punish the violation of them, as commandments of God. The State does forbid murder and theft and perjury, and some States forbid adultery, but not as commandments of God. From time immemorial, governments that knew nothing about God, have forbidden these things. If the civil power attempted to enforce these as the commandments of God, it would have to punish as a murderer the man who hates another; it would have to punish as a perjurer the man who raises a false report; it would have to punish as an adulterer the person who thinks impurely; it would have to punish as a thief the man who wishes to cheat his neighbor; because all these things are violations of the commandments of God. Therefore if the State is to enforce these things as the commandments of God, it will have to punish the thoughts and intents of the heart; but this is not within the province of any earthly power, and it is clear that any earthly power that should attempt it, would thereby simply put itself in the place of God, and usurp his prerogative. Jones, Alonzo. The Rights of the People: or Civil Government and Religion (pp. 23-24). Adventist Pioneer Library. Kindle Edition.
• Other illustrations might be given, but these are sufficient to show that obedience to the moral law is morality; that it pertains to the thoughts and the intents of the heart, and therefore the very nature of the case, lies beyond the reach [23] or control of the civil power. To hate, is murder; to covet, is idolatry; to think impurely of a woman, is adultery;— these are all equally immoral, and violations of the moral law, but no civil government seeks to punish for them. A man may hate his neighbor all his life; he may covet everything on earth; he may think impurely of every woman that he sees,— he may keep it up all his days; but so long as these things are confined to his thought, the civil power cannot touch him. It would be difficult to conceive of a more immoral person than such a man would be; yet the State cannot punish him. It does not attempt to punish him. This demonstrates again that with morality or immorality the State can have nothing to do. (Jones, Alonzo. The Rights of the People: or Civil Government and Religion (p. 19). Adventist Pioneer Library. Kindle Edition.)
“A crime, or breach of justice, is a deed of the individual, which the State, by its judicial acts, returns on the individual. The State furnishes a measure for crime, and punishes criminals according to their deserts. The judicial mind is a measuring mind, a retributive mind, because trained in the forms of justice, which sees to it that every man’s deeds shall be returned to him, to bless him or to curse him with pain. Now, a sin is a breach of the law of holiness, a lapse out of the likeness to the divine form, and as such it utterly refuses to be measured. It is infinite death to lapse out of the form of the divine. A sin cannot be atoned for by any finite punishment, but only (as revelation teaches) by a divine act of sacrifice.... It would destroy the State to attempt to treat crimes as sins, and to forgive them in case of repentance. It would impose on the judiciary the business of going behind the overt act to the disposition or frame of mind within the depth of personality. But so long as the deed is not uttered in the act, it does not belong to society, but only to the individual and to God. No human institution can go behind the overt act, and attempt to deal absolutely with the substance of man’s spiritual freedom.... Sin and crime must not be confounded, nor must the same deed be counted as crime and sin by the same authority. Look at it as crime, and it is capable of measured retribution. The law does not pursue the murderer beyond the gallows. He has expiated his crime with his life. But the slightest sin, even if it is no crime at all, as for example the anger of a man against his brother, an anger which does not utter itself in the form of violent deeds, but is pent up in the heart,— such non-criminal sin will banish the soul forever from heaven, unless it is made naught by sincere repentance.”10A.T. Jones adds:
Thus civil statutes define crime, and deal with crime, but not with sin; while the divine statutes define sin, and deal with sin, but not with crime. As God is the only moral governor, as his is the only moral government, as his law is the only moral law, and as it pertains to him alone to punish immorality, so likewise the promotion of morality pertains to him alone. Morality is conformity to the law of God; it is obedience to God. But obedience to God must spring from the heart in sincerity and truth.11Is this not the same jurisdictional separation outlined in the Doctrine and Covenants with the proviso that “Whatsoever is more or less than this cometh of evil”?
By this it is demonstrated that to no man, to no assembly or organization of men, does there belong any right whatever to punish immorality. Whoever attempts it, usurps the prerogative of God. The Inquisition is the inevitable logic of any assembly of men to punish immorality, because to punish immorality it is necessary in some way to get at the thoughts and intents of the heart.12
4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.As we ponder the jurisdictional breaching that is flooding through our present church-state culture can we awaken to the “awful situation” that we have allowed to get above us?13 And could it be that one of the distinguishing characteristics of the "church of the devil" in this world is the conjoining of church and state?
5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.
8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.
10 Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil. (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 98:3-10; bold emphasis added.)
4 We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.
5 We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; and that all governments have a right to enact such laws as in their own judgments are best calculated to secure the public interest; at the same time, however, holding sacred the freedom of conscience.
6 We believe that every man should be honored in his station, rulers and magistrates as such, being placed for the protection of the innocent and the punishment of the guilty; and that to the laws all men show respect and deference, as without them peace and harmony would be supplanted by anarchy and terror; human laws being instituted for the express purpose of regulating our interests as individuals and nations, between man and man; and divine laws given of heaven, prescribing rules on spiritual concerns, for faith and worship, both to be answered by man to his Maker.
7 We believe that rulers, states, and governments have a right, and are bound to enact laws for the protection of all citizens in the free exercise of their religious belief; but we do not believe that they have a right in justice to deprive citizens of this privilege, or proscribe them in their opinions, so long as a regard and reverence are shown to the laws and such religious opinions do not justify sedition nor conspiracy.
8 We believe that the commission of crime should be punished according to the nature of the offense; that murder, treason, robbery, theft, and the breach of the general peace, in all respects, should be punished according to their criminality and their tendency to evil among men, by the laws of that government in which the offense is committed; and for the public peace and tranquility all men should step forward and use their ability in bringing offenders against good laws to punishment.
9 We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied.
10 We believe that all religious societies have a right to deal with their members for disorderly conduct, according to the rules and regulations of such societies; provided that such dealings be for fellowship and good standing; but we do not believe that any religious society has authority to try men on the right of property or life, to take from them this world's goods, or to put them in jeopardy of either life or limb, or to inflict any physical punishment upon them. They can only excommunicate them from their society, and withdraw from them their fellowship.
11 We believe that men should appeal to the civil law for redress of all wrongs and grievances, where personal abuse is inflicted or the right of property or character infringed, where such laws exist as will protect the same; but we believe that all men are justified in defending themselves, their friends, and property, and the government, from the unlawful assaults and encroachments of all persons in times of exigency, where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws, and relief afforded. (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 134:4 - 11; all bold emphasis added.)
10 And he [the angel] said unto me [Nephi]: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. (Book of Mormon | 1 Nephi 14:10)In the next in this series, I intend to contrast words and actions of Jesus with the words of Paul, the Apostle concerning obedience to authority.
----------------------------------/
1. First three separation posts:
https://dejavu-timestwo.blogspot.com/2023/06/a-troubling-trend.html
https://dejavu-timestwo.blogspot.com/2023/07/back-to-future-again.html
https://dejavu-timestwo.blogspot.com/2023/08/2-understanding-separation-church-state.html
2. Church is here defined as a group of believers (whether organized formally or informally) who manifest “a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith” (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion) which, in this writer's opinion and in its broadest sense, includes political, economic, social, cultural, religious, spiritual, and pscience ideologies or dogmas, including: socialism, communism, fascism, Gnosticism, cultism, WEFism, WOism, transgenderism, etc..
(NOTE: the congruity of the cult of Ishtar with some of today's ideologies:
“Often identified as being neither male nor female, the role of the priests and priestesses of Inanna [aka, Ishtar] was to promote the fertility of the land. If they did not have sexual intercourse, it was thought that the land would no longer produce. They served at her temple in Uruk, the principal center of worship, and at numerous other shrines and temples to the goddess throughout Mesopotamia. As the goddess of fertility, Inanna was sometimes depicted as both male and female, and was said to have the ability to transform men into women and women into men. People who did not conform to Mesopotamian gender norms were often made into priests of Inanna. Such gender ambiguity also made Inanna an accessible deity, as both men and women could identify with her.” DK. The Mythology Book (Big Ideas) (p. 338). DK Publishing. Kindle Edition; bold emphasis added.)
See also this definition from Elder Bruce R. McConke: CHURCH OF THE DEVIL: ... The titles church of the devil and great and abominable church are used to identify all churches or organizations of whatever name or nature— whether political, philosophical, educational, economic, social, fraternal, civic, or religious—which are designed to take men on a course that leads away from God and his laws and thus from salvation in the kingdom of God. (Bruce R. McConkie. Mormon Doctrine, 2nd Edition, Bookcraft, 1966. pp. 137-38)
3. (not to mention almost every other church-state partnership in history world-wide)
4. New Testament | Matthew 22:21
Render therefore unto Cæsar the things which are Cæsar's; and unto God the things that are God's
5. In practice, however, jurisdiction gets complicated very quickly because, as history proves, the natural man (who obsessively pursues power, gain, glory, and domination) is an enemy to himself, his family, his neighbors, his community, and his God (if he admits to one). See https://dejavu-timestwo.blogspot.com/2010/05/natural-man.html
6. Old Testament | Exodus 20:3-17
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me[1].
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments[2].
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain[3].
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it[4].
12 ¶ Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee[5].
13 Thou shalt not kill[6].
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery[7].
15 Thou shalt not steal[8].
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour[9].
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's[10]. https://religions.wiki/index.php/Ten_Commandments
7. The secular equivalent may be obedience to the (Cæsar) system when it is acting within its legitimate jurisdiction
8. Jesus expanded adultery to include a state of mind which is solely within God's jurisdiction, but perhaps civic remedy could arise within state jurisdiction also if it entailed a breach of contract between two persons.
9. As covetousness is a state of mind, I believe it, too, is outside the reach of state power with accountability only to God.
10. As quoted by Jones, Alonzo. The Rights of the People: or Civil Government and Religion (p. 25). Adventist Pioneer Library. Kindle Edition.
11. Jones, Alonzo. The Rights of the People: or Civil Government and Religion (p. 21). Adventist Pioneer Library. Kindle Edition.
12. Ibid., (p. 23).
13. Book of Mormon | Ether 8:24-25
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.
Additional relevant jurisictional quotes:
• But it may be asked, Does not the civil power enforce the observance of the commandments of God, which say, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, and, Thou shalt not bear false witness? Does not the civil power punish the violation of these commandments of God? Answer— The civil power does not enforce these, nor does it punish the violation of them, as commandments of God. The State does forbid murder and theft and perjury, and some States forbid adultery, but not as commandments of God. From time immemorial, governments that knew nothing about God, have forbidden these things. If the civil power attempted to enforce these as the commandments of God, it would have to punish as a murderer the man who hates another; it would have to punish as a perjurer the man who raises a false report; it would have to punish as an adulterer the person who thinks impurely; it would have to punish as a thief the man who wishes to cheat his neighbor; because all these things are violations of the commandments of God. Therefore if the State is to enforce these things as the commandments of God, it will have to punish the thoughts and intents of the heart; but this is not within the province of any earthly power, and it is clear that any earthly power that should attempt it, would thereby simply put itself in the place of God, and usurp his prerogative. Jones, Alonzo. The Rights of the People: or Civil Government and Religion (pp. 23-24). Adventist Pioneer Library. Kindle Edition.
• Other illustrations might be given, but these are sufficient to show that obedience to the moral law is morality; that it pertains to the thoughts and the intents of the heart, and therefore the very nature of the case, lies beyond the reach [23] or control of the civil power. To hate, is murder; to covet, is idolatry; to think impurely of a woman, is adultery;— these are all equally immoral, and violations of the moral law, but no civil government seeks to punish for them. A man may hate his neighbor all his life; he may covet everything on earth; he may think impurely of every woman that he sees,— he may keep it up all his days; but so long as these things are confined to his thought, the civil power cannot touch him. It would be difficult to conceive of a more immoral person than such a man would be; yet the State cannot punish him. It does not attempt to punish him. This demonstrates again that with morality or immorality the State can have nothing to do. (Jones, Alonzo. The Rights of the People: or Civil Government and Religion (p. 19). Adventist Pioneer Library. Kindle Edition.)
